Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:04 Welcome to the loop marketing podcast. I'm your host Elise director of marketing at Huie today. I'm joined by Peggy's president and founder, Sean Cotton, as well as senior account strategy director, Monica Hershman let's get started. So to kick it off, what exactly is retail media? And what do you think is driving its growth across the industry? Go for it, Sean, you kick us off.
Speaker 2 00:00:32 Well, retail media is ex experiencing explosive growth right now because the retailers that exist in the, in the marketplace right now have a very close relationship with consumers. They're, they're oftentimes weekly, uh, sometimes daily, but certainly on a very regular basis. And so to buy the things that they need and because of that, um, they're able to capture, um, the interest, the purchase activity and so forth of these consumers and package it into data and into inventory that then we're able to use to market to them. And so with the deprecation of cookies and, uh, with, um, challenges to measurement and so forth, retail media is becoming even more and more important as part of the digital, uh, uh, ecosystem in, in marketing to consumers.
Speaker 1 00:01:29 So then thinking about the history of retail media, I'm sure a lot of CPGs align that with in-store marketing. Yep. Basically being at the point of purchase mm-hmm, <affirmative> having some sort of influence, right. But retail media today is becoming increasingly digital thinking about the changes of the, in the consumer journey. Um, Monica, could you touch a little bit on the importance of getting ahead of that point of purchase and then having the, the final touchpoint before actually scanning the item?
Speaker 3 00:01:57 So prior customers would look in sales, like mm-hmm <affirmative> kiosk, or like Sunday papers to look through the sales. And now they're going to Amazon and typing in best TV for me, or they're going to, you know, best buy. And both of those retailers have their own in network now because they knew that that data and that customer was looking specifically for that piece. So, you know, we're, we're evolution from, you know, like really tangible assets, but tangible is now online because they're just experiencing and they want that experience instantly instead of like, oh, okay, well I'm gonna see the sale. I have to make sure the sale's on this period drive to the store. And then they're like, oh, we're outta stock. It's just that instantaneous, um, type of measurement and also just experience for those consumers. Um, and then POS is still there, but now we have to track it all the way back to first touch. Right. So we gotta get that, that brand awareness first and then be a peer at the checkout and saying, yeah, that Snickers bar or grab that, that instantaneous purchase at the checkout, why they're waiting. So it's just, it's not just like siloing from POS or point of sale or digital media growing them together.
Speaker 1 00:03:12 So then thinking about that, there's the physical touch points, which are more of the traditional media. And then there's the more, I would say, virtual touchpoints, which is across digital and something you talk about a lot is connected commerce. So can you explain what connected commerce means through the lens of how you've applied it to your clients and what you've been able to learn over the last couple of years as more of these, um, in-store networks have become available?
Speaker 3 00:03:40 Yeah. So I first read about this strategy through sky and it, but essentially it's like stitching all these data points together because obviously you can't have just retail media by itself and then advertising and then in-store sales. You have to see how they're influencing each other because then the measurement becomes into it. So it's just the orchestration of channels, tactics in store POS and everything placements, medium and data. So data is the big driver here, right? So that's how we're getting to our audience. That's how we're really applying to our audience and really finding our niche. But also we have to remember the sales data is a, a huge thing here and in store quantity. So if we're advertising to our audience, but then they're sold out in stores, it's a bad customer experience. So we have to look at all Le levels and layers of that data to understand what is benefiting and how we need to go approach our audience. And so that connected commerce definition, I, it, you have to see all angles, but you have to see what is influencing where, and making sure that you're keeping all of that, um, at top of mind when you're evaluating results.
Speaker 1 00:04:47 So then thinking about defining what success looks like for CPGs, I feel like that's changed a lot over the last year in particular, um, obviously influenced by the pandemic as people shopped more digitally than in store. Um, but also how do brands think about that full consumer journey? Mm-hmm <affirmative> so obviously retail media has some benefit of more of a closed loop measurement solution. Um, can we also talk a little bit about what, how do you blend that with a D to C experience and also look at, in store and have more of a holistic purview into success per view, and to success of your campaigns?
Speaker 2 00:05:30 Well, that's a lot Elise <laugh>, you know, you know, I think, you know, understanding that retail media, while it does provide some very real and tangible conversion and lower fun funnel metrics should really be utilized throughout the consumer journey. And we saw this years ago, as we started to implement Amazon campaigns, mm-hmm <affirmative> in that many people, actually the vast majority of people in a commerce environment were beginning their purchase journey on Amazon. And they may not have bought on Amazon, but they were doing research. They were looking at reviews, they were doing price comparisons and so forth. And that journey continued through the other channels that Monica was talking about with connected commerce, maybe, uh, concluding in store or, or maybe direct on the publisher's website. And so I think in tying what CPG marketers, uh, are trying to accomplish to what's taking place in the DTC world, it's really establishing that full funnel strategy that goes throughout the consumer journey and not just the bottom of the funnel. So that's probably the correlation between those two industries.
Speaker 3 00:06:46 And I also wanna add like a brand doesn't gain instant recognition on those retail media platforms. Like you have to gain awareness and get that consideration before they're even gonna go to the Instacart. So the CVSs are the best buys of the world. They're gonna do their knowledge or, and their research prior to that. So we have to start that journey way earlier than just relying on those bottom funnel, tactics of Instacarts and Amazons to really capture that attention first and really create the need for the customer instead of just like assuming, well, we're on Instacart, it's gonna work. Um, we have to connect video, social, you know, display to all of that, but also the brand story and the brand attributes we have to continue to really holistically do a communication strategy.
Speaker 1 00:07:34 So then thinking about what does an optimal user experience or consumer experience look like? What have you learned through trial and error, maybe successes, maybe failures, um, to help push brands forward.
Speaker 3 00:07:48 I think identifying where your customer is, the strongest, but also where the most opportunity is so really take taking a step back and analyzing where your product is, um, where your potential audience is, that's going to buy that product. And then where's the opportunity. So really not just saying, oh, well I have the biggest audience in New York city, right. But it might, you might have 3% store shelf life, right there. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so go into smaller markets where, you know, you can make an impact and really drive the needle forward and build a model. So you can understand how you need to roll it out and X, Y, and Z, um, but also create the experience from ads to web, to in store seamlessly. Because if you can't ha if you have a segmented brand story and all three of those pieces of journey, because that is the customer experience, you're gonna have a fragmented experience for your customers. So just really taking a step back and building it all together. Um, so we can have a, it's a seamless interaction.
Speaker 2 00:08:48 Yeah. And there's a, uh, incredible opportunity through the use of retail media to inform us as to who our best customers are. I mean, it's rich first party data. And as we can model that out, um, to find perspective consumers just like them, uh, to reach them through media. But as Monica mentioned earlier to also inform our, our creative and our messaging strategy, uh, then we're really taking full use of, um, this data that's available to us in this, in this space.
Speaker 1 00:09:22 So then thinking about brands across different industries, who should be tapping into this, um, CPG obviously is top of mind makes immediately makes sense in terms of the loyalty programs and having that data based off of past purchase history, but are there other industries that should be leaning into retail media who maybe haven't considered that sort of tactic in the past?
Speaker 3 00:09:46 I think the auto industry is a really big key here because you think about when COVID and the pandemic hit, um, their experience was driven by you go into the dealership and you get to test drive and you get that hands on experience. And you depend on those sales people to really ring in that when the pandemic hit, we, all those dealerships were closed down, but they still needed to sell cars, right. So they had to really shift their mindsets of you gotta win online before you win on the showroom floor. And so that whole concept of retail media has kind of shifted to the auto industry where they have to build that awareness to capture that first, it takes 75 days for somebody to buy a car, how many interactions of ads we can get in front of them to consider not just an auto, but a dealership or a brand. Um, I think that can, the auto industry is really catching up with the retail media industry.
Speaker 2 00:10:42 Yeah. And I think that, um, seasonal campaigns can also benefit from retail media, uh, in a unique way, for instance, back to school mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. Right. You know, so that, that history of, of purchases in a retail environment would really give us insight as to who's going to be in the market for school clothes and school supplies and, and computers and electronics, and so forth, same way with the holidays, right. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, informing those holiday campaigns. So, but really most industries because of the richness of the first party data and retail media, uh, it doesn't hurt for them to experiment and to take their own first party data and compare that to the data that exists in these retail environments. Admittedly, it's siloed. And just to that particular retailer, but test it, uh, load your first party data against that, and try to get some insights about the audience in that, your audience in that environment.
Speaker 3 00:11:45 Yeah. I also think something cool, like a Starbucks customer, you know, they have the loyalty cards, they scan their, you know, and finding those contextual audiences that are a Starbucks customer. So we always do personas, right. Is it a Starbucks customer, but also trying to drive them to a different type of brand mm-hmm <affirmative>. So finding those similarities, how we can share that first party data and go get a different type of customer too. Um, I think that's something really cool that as this cookie list environment really ramps up these companies that have built these longstanding loyalty programs have rich, rich data that our marketers and us, as, you know, digital strategists can really hamper or like grasp onto and go find that audience still in very, very safe and privacy bound ways.
Speaker 1 00:12:31 So what would you say to brands that are extremely intimidated by a cookie list future who want to knee jerk react and think that digital doesn't work any longer and go back to expensive placements, you know, thinking billboards that maybe challenging to measure ROI, but then they still expect that sort of attribution. What would you tell them, um, on how they can leverage retail media to put them forth into the future?
Speaker 2 00:13:00 Well, first of all, I would say it's great that you wanna lean into <laugh> these other channels that really drive, uh, awareness and consideration and intent such as video and TV and out of home, that's absolutely what they should do, but do it in a way to where it's informed by the data that's still available to us, whether it's retail media and, and or, or other sources of, of reliable data, so that we don't have to go all the way back to a spray and prey approach with these channels, but we can go into these same high impact channels informed with data and, uh, in a more precise way, that's also measurable, uh, that we can tie back, you know, in some form or fashion to, you know, the dollars that we spent in those channels.
Speaker 3 00:13:50 Yeah. And I think partners like the trade desk have done a really good job of getting that first party data from these retail media partners. So we don't have to do the spray and pre we can connect those things together. So if we're on Instacart, we can do the type same type of audiences and then push them in other push and pull them in separate ways. But we also have to remember as marketers, cookies were never supposed to be used the way they are right now. Right. So, you know, we just have to be very smart, but our audience is still there. We just can't just use, rely on that little piece of data. So, you know, connecting those data sources together and those audiences together, knowing that they're first or second party, and then carrying them through all, all, all channels, be with live ramp and audiences like that, you know, you can have a much more cohesive story within this cookie list environment, but context and content, really messaging and your brand. That's gonna bring all the story together quicker now with that, without the cookie list environment.
Speaker 1 00:14:47 And I think about measurement, you know, we'll have to get a little bit back to our roots probably for a while thinking more of statistical practices like media mix modeling to show the efficacy of traditional layered in with the digital touch points. Um, so how do you avoid, um, being afraid of not having the easy button anymore in terms of defining what success looks like?
Speaker 2 00:15:10 Well, I think it starts with clearly defining, um, the business goals and objectives up front and knowing, uh, what that, that benchmark that we're shooting for is, and if that's our north star, then as we put our media into market, that's our true measure of success is are we making progress towards that goal now, to your point, attributing, what's driving that success is the holy grail of what everybody, you know, wants to provide a solution for. And in the past, or even right now cookies seem to provide some, some sort of easy way to do that attribution. Uh, we would argue that it's not, you know, the most accurate way, but it is easier, uh, to make that attribution. Um, but with that not available, that doesn't mean that that type of measurement isn't available to by channel, right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so you can look like you said, media mix models.
Speaker 2 00:16:14 You can look at incrementality mm-hmm <affirmative> that when you are on during this time period versus that time period, what was the impact on your, your sales or your business goals you can do, uh, control and expose market test mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and there are technology providers that do tie together, uh, your, your different media channels in a way to show how you drove sales. Uh, and Monica's worked with them on several of her CPG accounts. Uh, so, um, I, I would say, you know, what I would tell marketers that are worried about that is, um, it's time for the real marketers to stand up mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so it's not a, it is not a time to, you know, back away from that challenge, but really to lean into, um, this world of, of media and marketing. That's not so reliant on a signal that has probably led us in the wrong direction in the past.
Speaker 3 00:17:11 Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, Sean touched that and that we've partnered with a Catalina or IRI or ABA to really help us understand those measurements. And those are control, you know, exposed groups and, you know, Catalina offers first party audiences that you can run as a, as well as the measurement solution. And, you know, they're data of 40 plus years that you, there are the coupon people, you know, everybody you've got the coupon at the cash, so they have a lot of data of signals and triggers and they understand their audience and can apply it to multiple industries, not just CPG. So I think it's, it's it just have, you can have to not think of your media siloed. If you run, run retail media, you have to understand it was in market here, then it got taken out, how did it help us, or how did it hurt us and really understanding a good test strategy and learn, test and grow. Because if you don't, you, you will never know what mix is, right. And so that goes back to medium mix modeling, but kind of having an experimentation mindset in this new era where we can really test and learn and then grow and, you know, pivot quickly. So I think there's a lot of good opportunity here. And like, as Sean says, let the real marketers stand up. And, you know, I think that we we' really ready to go, you know, with this calculus. Ironment
Speaker 1 00:18:30 Great. Thank you so much for being here, Sean and Monica. It's a great conversation. We look forward to having you again. Thank you. This is always Liz. Thank you for listening. Peggy is an industry leading performance marketing agency based in the Midwest. We've learned a lot since our founding in 2014 and started the loop marketing podcast to share some of our hot takes on marketing trends. We're following best practices. We've discovered in actionable tips for improving your digital strategy. We'll see you next time.
