[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Loop Marketing podcast. I'm very excited to be joined today by our client partner, Trevor Griffith, who currently serves as the senior director of performance marketing at the Humane Society of the United States, as well as Koege's senior account director, Jamie Martin, who has been in the world of digital marketing for almost two decades, with more than half of that dedicated to pet and cause marketing. So welcome to you both. Excited to dive into our topic today of truly understanding your clients business, which is certainly a critical one for agency and brand relationships. But before we dive in, I'd like to turn over the mic to you, Trevor, and just have you tell us a little bit more about your role at the Humane Society and hear more about your journey with the organization.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Sure. So I've been with hsus for more than eleven years. I originally started work here doing organic social media just for our international affiliate. You mean say international?
My work sort of split. So we international affiliate, it handles our program work outside of the US, and then we have hsus, which handles all of our domestic work, and then we fundraise for them separately.
But Facebook advertising was a new thing back in 2014, and so I essentially started the HSI advertising program, and then mostly through ads, we grew that program successfully. Then 2019, we made the decision to merge the marketing departments and I took over the HSUS paid media program as well. So today I oversee both programs and a team of, I think, 14 full time employees. We actually do things a little bit differently than most nonprofits, which might be helpful to this conversation. But we have a team of internal media buyers who do most of our media buying, except some of the work we're doing with Koegi. But my role, broadly speaking, is focused around acquiring as many new donors and email and sms leads as possible for the organization, cultivating and retaining those donors, and then upselling those donors to move from one time donors to monthly donors. Then lastly, we use paid media across a number of channels. Paid social, search, connect tv with your tv, some audio work, too.
[00:02:10] Speaker C: That's perfect.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: So I know that we began our relationship together about going on a year ago. So when the humane Society was beginning that work with in that partnership, what were some of those key business challenges that you were looking to solve for? I mean, it sounds like a core piece of that puzzle was certainly donor acquisition, but what were some other things that you were looking at?
[00:02:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
So historically, weve been a very last click centered organization. Right. Given that were advertising using donor dollars, we of course, strive to be as cost effective as possible. And of stewards of those resources as possible. So generally we're looking at conversions that occurred directly from our ad spend. So we haven't had a real interest in a lot of sort of high funnel, top of funnel marketing nor fluffy metrics. So we're only looking at sort of dollars and leads in the door directly from our ads. But we wanted to pivot in working with CoGi, we wanted to look more at top of funnel channels and then their broader impact driving conversions to some of our other channels. So being a little bit more holistic in our attribution, taking into account things like your conversion, et cetera, we wanted to see if some of those other platforms and placements could have a sort of halo effect and lift other channels like email, sms, organic web and move folks downstream to convert in other places.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: Yep, that certainly makes a lot of sense. And I feel like that is a direction I've been seeing more and more from clients understanding that while last click attribution is critical, understanding how to fill that funnel, so to speak, is critical as well. So Jamie, I want to turn it over to you. I know that when you were starting to put together a strategy, I'm sure you were having to think about new ways to look at audiences. So what were you beginning to think about from a strategic standpoint and finding that next level of donor?
[00:04:09] Speaker C: Yeah. So when we first started to work with humane society, we knew that they had a very strong core donors. They had people that had been loyal and had been donating for a long time, but we needed to be able to find that new, if we want to call it generation or really just find those new donors. So we did do a lot of research on understanding. Was it a generational thing and how and why people were donating? I think we found a lot within messaging, but we also wanted to better understand then those channels, like how could we better tell the story of humane society more quickly to be able to give that halo effect so that they could see it on multiple channels, but then also have a deeper understanding of all the impact that humane society makes throughout the course of their time.
[00:05:03] Speaker A: So then when you were beginning to do that exploration, what were some of the research points that you turned to to begin to uncover those new opportunities? And I'm sure, Trevor, you can feel free to jump in here as well. About HSUs has tons of data from historical experience, and especially you having been there for so long and having seen that evolution of data. But maybe a bit of a tag team answer here. But Jamie, where'd you start. And then, Trevor, where'd you fill in gaps from third party research?
[00:05:36] Speaker C: Yeah, so we were able to look at, as I mentioned, prior donors, where did they have a law affinity with those donors. And then we really looked at what were some of the trends that we were seeing with those younger generations, who was giving the most, who was most likely to become a monthly donor, more loyal to the mean society. We also layered in a lot with our partner, resonate. They do a great job of being able to take some of those key trends and map it out to what they look like across the web.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: Yes, I think Jamie said it pretty well. We've been looking to Coagi to help us expand our prospecting approach a little bit.
I mean, we've been doing prospecting in a very similar manner for a very long time, and it's been very effective. But I think with changes across the industry, just more broadly too, around cookie deprecation, all of that, it's been a little bit harder at times to leverage some of our first party data to generate those audiences, at least the way that we were doing it.
And so Kuwaiti has access to some tools that we do not and also had some audience recommendations that we had.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: Implemented for so then, now that we have almost a year's worth of data under our belts from the start of the relationship to where we are today.
Trevor, I'll start with you. What are some of the key 2023 learnings that in form 2024 and 2024 going into 2025, uncovering those new areas of opportunity for hsus?
[00:07:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I think we've seen some positives from the DRTV test that we did last year that was more focused on, you might refer to it more as linear tv, we call it in the nonprofit world, direct Response TV, Dr. TV, but that was more focused on Geo comparison. We took two markets, Austin and Charlotte, and compared them to see if our media buy their measured lift. We're doing some additional testing in that channel this year and switched our buy to be national.
I think we've seen some improved efficiency with some similar platforms in place in last year, too. On the digital side, social retargeting and prospecting led by Kuwaiti has been improved over time, along with some of their display work. I think we're still trying to assess just how much of a piece display has in our media mix. We're working towards that and having a final answer, I suppose, as we get more results that are coming in. For me personally, though, I think DRTV is really a big area of opportunity for the organization in a really interesting space, though. There's still a learning period to get our CPA in place that's sustainable and scalable. But the channel really does seem to expose our work to a demographic of people that we simply can't reach on the digital side. Right. The percent new donors is very high, and it seems very scalable.
So it's a program we used to be really heavy in as an organization, but haven't been for a number of years. And there are some other nonprofits in the space who are really excelling, and that's at least my ambition for the organization to do the same.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: And then, Jamie, how about you? Any sort of look backs on the last year's worth of data and thinking about planning for the future for hsus? Are there any additional opportunities that you're seeing with the team to explore?
[00:09:13] Speaker C: Absolutely. So as Trevor mentioned last fall, we were able to test within linear tv or the direct response, and we did that in a one DMA test so we could really understand what it looked like when we were running that ecosystem, that multichannel approach where we had the halo effect of tv as well as we were doing digital out at home and retargeting with mobile ads. So we really had a nice system in place, and so I think we're starting to branch out of that a little bit. We're not as focused on just one specific DMA, so we're able to take those learning and spread them across and really understand how we can make that impact at a national level while being as efficient as we can. We don't want the cost per acquisition to increase.
So really being mindful of how we're executing those media dollars.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: Absolutely. So then just thinking about the strong relationship that you guys have started in terms of the partnership, I'd love to hear from you, Jamie, about any particular success stories that you've seen in that partnership and how you've been able to really dive into the HSUS business and become an extension of the team.
[00:10:40] Speaker C: Yes. As a pet lover, I welcomed working on humane society with open arms. I was really so excited, and so it's been great to partner with Trevor. I think we both really respect the transparency and just the level of communication that we have. I think if we need a quick question answered, we can reach out to one another, and it's really just opened up the lines of communication has just made it a lot easier as we move forward, as we're making optimizations coming up, maybe with new ideas. Midway. I know Trevor has come to us midway and said, hey, what are you thinking about this? So I think just having that collaborative mentality and being able to pivot and flex as we need to and realizing that we all have great ideas and working together is only making us stronger as a team.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Absolutely. And then, Trevor, I know that you mentioned that historically upper funnel hasn't been as much of a focus for the organization. And so I'm sure this was a bit of a different working partnership than what you've experienced with other agencies, but would love to hear any sort of success stories in addition to what you've already mentioned about Dr. TV, about working with Koeki.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I think Jamie summed it up pretty well. I think the level of transparency is key and level of communication.
I feel like we bother Koeige all the time with stuff that not maybe outlined originally, the expectations, and they're always able to adapt and help us out, but more broadly, getting a familiarity with one another, not only working styles, but just the metrics that we're working within, what we're trying to accomplish. I think that's been a key this year at least to set ourselves up for success a little bit better.
But beyond that, in terms of success metrics, we've seen performance improvements, like I said, on the digital side, month over month, and things are trending more in the direction that we want. I think to your point about the differences in some of the top of funnel advertising, we have to suspend belief a little bit upfront. And the hope is that those prospecting audience, that takes a little bit of time for them to make their way down the funnel and then convert downstream. That's been a little bit of an adjustment, but I think it's a worthwhile test and approach to take on, which is again, a little bit different than what we've done historically.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: So then when we're thinking about launching a new partnership, you guys know your business much stronger than what your agency partner does, even though we do our best to get up to speed quickly. But what were some of the key insights that you shared with Koege upfront on HSUs to help Jamie and the team understand your business better and ultimately launch into the partnership, rather than just doing like a crawl approach?
[00:13:52] Speaker B: Yeah, and I mean, we share quite a bit, right? So I believe we share our historic numbers and our data, which is always helpful. That probably allowed Koegi to understand our investment level, some of our core KPI's like CPA, CPC, CTR, et cetera. And then we have a benchmark that we stay within when we do our monthly reporting, like, are we under our targets? Are we above what needs to adjust? I think that sort of helped establish a baseline for all of us. We shared some creative examples of high performing and low performing content, our measurement strategy tools that we use in that regard, our media counter, really just as much kind of information as I think you can give to help them make educated, informed decisions about the approach that we ought to take.
So, yeah, I think that. I think that that level of sharing was hopefully helpful for the coggy side. But let me know if there's more that you need, Jamie, and all I'll send.
[00:14:51] Speaker C: All right, sounds good.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it sounds like there's been a lot of information shared, but, Jamie, I'd love to hear about how all of that information helped you and the team with your strategy and planning and benchmarking, um, how that was applied to the strategy and recommendations.
[00:15:08] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. So I think being as transparent and so what we knew what success looked like coming out of the gate, I think that really helped us better align our strategy to make sure that we were going after new donors, we were finding those new audiences. I will say no stone was left unturned to be able to really identify what was the best path forward, knowing what had worked in the past.
Where were those still some of those opportunities. So, understanding, if there was any white space, was there a channel? Was there maybe a creative and a channel that we hadn't tested out before?
So really going with that test and learn mentality and just understanding, where did we want to put a little bit more emphasis and maybe where did we want to pull back a little bit and just make sure that that was the right path before we really turned on too much of the media dollars there.
[00:16:08] Speaker A: So then, thinking about the future, I know that we like to push boundaries here at Kuwait and start to, as you said, Jamie, thinking about, test and learn, where can we try new things and maybe do the unexpected? So I'd love to hear about how you both have inspired each other to think outside the box on campaigns you've collaborated on and if there are any examples that you'd care to share. So, Jamie, I'd love for you to kick off, if you don't mind.
[00:16:37] Speaker C: Yeah. So this year, we did get the opportunity to work with Trevor, and then we actually have a creative partner that is helping us. So I feel like with that, we've been able to place the creative messaging into the right channels as well. We're testing the water with a little bit of the creative approach as well as going into some new channels. One that we're getting ready to launch would be Pinterest, which wouldn't be your necessarily top of mind as far as looking for new donors. But we felt like after doing all of our audience research, understanding where they dedicated a lot of time and again being able to layer on that messaging to make sure that it fit within the channel, that has really helped us to be able to launch that as a new test channel this year. And I'll say that Trevor also pushed us a little bit more to think again about our linear tv approach from this year. We learned a lot when we looked at that DMA only test, but then I feel like we've been able to take some of that and then really expand and make it into a national campaign and I'm really excited to see how, how that comes out this year.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: And then Trevor, I just love to hear same thing to you of it sounds like you've already pushed the team to think bigger on that linear tv test and thinking about how do we get even bigger results. But are there any other ideas that come to mind when thinking about out of the box or outside of the box rather approaches that are a potential driver for the organization?
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, the doctor tv one's just hard to not touch on just because it's.
I mean, if you could see the creative that we ran last year as part of the pilot and then what we're getting ready to roll out with, it's very, very different. It's just a different approach in terms of targeting channels, obviously. Creative approach, top to bottom, it's different. So we're definitely exploring different pathways there. I mean, but yeah, generally we're asking COIV rag to be in placements that we're not currently active in. So we're asking them to think out of the box on our behalf. Right. Pinterest is a good example. It's not somewhere that we normally would be on the social side, just because historically for us it hasn't been a place that sort of lends itself to cost effective direct response, but we're treating it a little bit differently and looking at more as a brain building and then also just building a retargeting pool that we can then find those folks in other platforms too. So yeah, I would say just pretty much everything's changed in terms of the strategy and there's a lot of testing that's going into it. So definitely different than what we normally do for sure.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: Great. So just wrapping up the conversation, I think there are a lot of good insights here. I think that having that openness and transparency between teams is definitely key. Just to be honest about what's working, what's not, where we could be going, where we may be held up.
Definitely listening to the client and all their vast amount of experience with the brand, as you certainly have, Trevor, and then just trying and testing new things, thinking outside of the box, and at least giving things a shot, even if they seem unconventional. But Trevor, to wrap things up, I'd love to hear if there are any final thoughts or advice that you'd give to agencies and or organizations who are looking to strengthen that client agency relationship.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: Yeah, sure.
I alluded to earlier, but I think, again, getting aligned on just setting expectations early on is going to be really key. Otherwise, I think you're just setting yourself up for a bad outcome if you not have the same guidepost that you're working towards.
I also think there has to be a certain level of trust, but also deference on certain things. Kaleidi brings expertise in certain places that we simply don't have on our team. And then we also, like you said, have a group of folks who's pretty experienced internally, too. And obviously, nonprofit marketing is a very different sort of approach than for profit companies, just generally speaking. So they have to also divert us on certain things.
But yeah, I'd say the communication is also going to be paramount. Jamie and Cammie have been great. We back and forth. I feel like almost every day having that availability and also just level of expertise, it's definitely a comfort to us.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: Absolutely. And Jamie, I'm sure that you'd be in alignment, that communication is key. But are there any additional thoughts or advice that you would also add in terms of a showcase of a strong client agency relationship?
[00:21:41] Speaker C: I would say that something that's really helped our relationship is that we do have remote meetings twice a week. And I just think having that level of communication where we can actually talk to each other on a regular basis has really helped. I think with everyone being remote and definitely, obviously, since COVID more people are working more on their laptops versus having those in person meetings. So I think any way that you can get closer to that really helps, and it's just made our working relationship even better.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: That's perfect. Well, definitely want to thank you both for your time today and some really good insights. And thank you for your dedication to protecting our animals. As an avid animal lover myself, I'm especially a big fan of the work that you both are doing and excited for all the great things to come and to our listeners. Definitely reach out to the
[email protected]. if there are any follow ups to our conversation and follow hsus and all of their social channels to keep up to date with what they're doing. And we'll see you next time.
